Medar wrote:Now Space - don't go turning this into a Right vs. Left thing...nobody mentioned anything about Red and Blue here in the good ole USA.

You are right Medar, and I apologize. I thought I had sanitized it, but missed that one.

Isnt it strange though that when something hits the news really big then suddenly it flares up and you start seeing it everywhere. Before 9/11 you hardly ever heard of anyone being muslim. Now its like you cant even walk down the street without meeting someone who claims to be a muslim.

Vengence wrote:Isnt it strange though that when something hits the news really big then suddenly it flares up and you start seeing it everywhere. Before 9/11 you hardly ever heard of anyone being muslim. Now its like you cant even walk down the street without meeting someone who claims to be a muslim.

How else would the 'powers that be' keep us in line? Keep us scared and distracted from the real issues.

S.L.N wrote:Islam in itself is not a violent religion
its a couple radicals, kinda like those who blow up abortion clinics, pretty much the opposite of what the bible says in the new testament huh?
and no its not scary to me.
If i died tomorrow, id be a bit bummed, but I wouldnt cry over it, only real regret is i never got to tell her.
Everything on this earth will end eventually

Think about this.

If there are 100 million Muslims on earth, and only %10 of those are radical terrorists, then how many radical terrorists does that give us?

I just spent 10 months in Iraq and I'm heading to Afghanistan next year. Before I went to Iraq, I believed, as most do, that Islam was not a threat in itself, just the hard core radicals that twist certain versus to fit their agenda. I have since corrected that misguided belief.

Think of it this way. Most Germans in WWII didn't consider themselves hard core Nazis, yet look what Hitler was able to do with only a small pecentage of "true believers". The "moderates" fell in line and did as they were asked because they felt that their way of life was threatened. The same is happening in the islamic world. The hard core fanatics do most of the killing, but the vast majority of "moderate" muslims lend support by doing nothing to stop them. Why? Because they have been convinced that their way of life is threatened by the great satan and his jewish allies. Sound familiar?

The threat is real, ignore it at your own peril.

leatherpuke wrote:The "moderates" fell in line and did as they were asked because they felt that their way of life was threatened. The same is happening in the islamic world. The hard core fanatics do most of the killing, but the vast majority of "moderate" muslims lend support by doing nothing to stop them. Why? Because they have been convinced that their way of life is threatened by the great satan and his jewish allies. Sound familiar?

The threat is real, ignore it at your own peril.

Salute to you Leatherpuke, for your service to our country.

One could make the exact same point for the 'western world' as well. Seems to me we were a tad misled by certain hard-core factions about Iraq being ready to launch WMDs at a moments notice, and the 'moderates' did nothing for fear of being labeled 'anti-american' and being politically castrated even after the truth came out, and some to this very day. That was a long time ago now, and we are still there putting our young men and women in danger, and all but destroying our economy to do it.

Since there were in fact no 'smoking guns' in Iraq, why are muslims wrong in feeling their way of life is threatened by western agression? Iran is surrounded by our military. If I were Iranian and had seen American actions in the middle east over the last 20 years or so, and with Israel threatennign to attack, I would be very worried for my way of life!

As to the Israeli influence, it seems to me that everything other than the hunt for Bin Laden is an appeasement to Israeli fears. First we return (as if we ever left) to war with Iraq, and now they are trying to cajole us into attacking Iran as well. I don't support the Islamist extremists by any means, but don't think we should be sacrificing ourselves because the Israelis keep pissing people off. They have a comprehensive peace deal on the table based on international law and normal relations with the entire Arab world, and yet they choose to maintain the status quo and push us to make aggression in that region. If they make peace with the Arabs all around them, they should have nothing to fear from Islam.

To your closing point, about the threat being real. If it is real, we should ask if it is a threat of our own making. If it is, we can unmake it. Never cut what can be untied.

My simple answer was to give the Palestinians and Jews 180 days to clear out.

Then we nuke Jerusalem. Level it. Irradiate the ever-loving hell out of it.

If one of them wants it after that? It's theirs!

But seriously as an American I am 100% tired of backing Israel for no massive reason. We are certainly not equal partners...after WWII we eventually helped in setting up the Jewish state because every Allied Country felt bad for what had occurred to the Jews in WWII. Bada bing - Israel the country was born. But EVER since that decision has been made there has been nothing but grief come out of that part of the world.

Some days I wish America would go back to being more of an Isolationist country and worry about OUR borders and OUR people rather than the rest of the world. Many in the world want to see it that way...I am of the mind that USA should give it to them. Only after we take away our funding, our military presences, our free passes into our educational systems...THEN they will realize what they bit when it was handed to them.

Tiger! Help! they're going to get me in trouble again!

Trouble4u wrote:Tiger! Help! they're going to get me in trouble again!

No way, dude! I posted this thread, so you can't get in trouble this time. Besides, everyone is being very respectful of each other, just like it should be.

Salute

Don't worry Trouble just blame it on SNA since he is gone right now

Space wrote:

leatherpuke wrote:The "moderates" fell in line and did as they were asked because they felt that their way of life was threatened. The same is happening in the islamic world. The hard core fanatics do most of the killing, but the vast majority of "moderate" muslims lend support by doing nothing to stop them. Why? Because they have been convinced that their way of life is threatened by the great satan and his jewish allies. Sound familiar?

The threat is real, ignore it at your own peril.

Salute to you Leatherpuke, for your service to our country.

One could make the exact same point for the 'western world' as well. Seems to me we were a tad misled by certain hard-core factions about Iraq being ready to launch WMDs at a moments notice, and the 'moderates' did nothing for fear of being labeled 'anti-american' and being politically castrated even after the truth came out, and some to this very day. That was a long time ago now, and we are still there putting our young men and women in danger, and all but destroying our economy to do it.

Since there were in fact no 'smoking guns' in Iraq, why are muslims wrong in feeling their way of life is threatened by western agression? Iran is surrounded by our military. If I were Iranian and had seen American actions in the middle east over the last 20 years or so, and with Israel threatennign to attack, I would be very worried for my way of life!

As to the Israeli influence, it seems to me that everything other than the hunt for Bin Laden is an appeasement to Israeli fears. First we return (as if we ever left) to war with Iraq, and now they are trying to cajole us into attacking Iran as well. I don't support the Islamist extremists by any means, but don't think we should be sacrificing ourselves because the Israelis keep pissing people off. They have a comprehensive peace deal on the table based on international law and normal relations with the entire Arab world, and yet they choose to maintain the status quo and push us to make aggression in that region. If they make peace with the Arabs all around them, they should have nothing to fear from Islam.

To your closing point, about the threat being real. If it is real, we should ask if it is a threat of our own making. If it is, we can unmake it. Never cut what can be untied.

To say that Iraq never had WMDs is to blatantly ignore history. Sadam used Nerve gas on the Kurds and against Iran, along with mustard gas, blister agents, and blood agents. The weapons were stockpiled for YEARS after the first gulf war and the UN inspectors were forbidden from inspecting the storage sights. Since the UN is a completely incompetent and useless organization, it did nothing to correct the problem except pass 14 resolutions, which it refused to enforce.
Once sadam was made aware that we were going to invade, his WMDs, including his nuclear components, were trucked across the Syrian border where they sit to this day, safely in the hands of the Syrian Military. This is fact, not speculation.

As to your last point, to say that we invited the slaughter of roughly 3,000 unarmed, innocent Americans is both insulting and misguided. Islam does not hate us becuase of some wrong we did them, they don't hate us because we support Israel. They hate us because we are not THEM. They hate us because we refuse to convert. They hate us because we refuse to accept sharia law and give up the "evil" freedoms that we have fought for. If the U.S. suddenly became an isolationist state overnight and apologized for all of our perceived evils over the years, we would still be targeted by Islam simply because we are guilty of the crime of existing. Placating and appeasing monsters will only buy you time. Ask the British.

And as for the Israeli's. I seem to remember about a dozen "peace deals" over the years that have all been broken by either the PLO, Hamas, or Hezbullah. The Israelis offered to agree to over %90 of arafats demands and they were refused. The Israeli's don't go around lobbing missles into Lebanon, they don't send mentally retarded children into crowded markets strapped with explosives, they don't blow up busses full of innocent commuters. The Israeli's respond with violence only when provoked, and then the world condemns them for having the gall to defend themselves.