Specialized education (in one field) doesnt start for the American student until well into the 2nd year of college.
good or bad?

I beg to differ. I just feel that there is no real way to measure success.

Nobody is trying to measure success, like you said its subjective since "success" is not defined. BUT, measuring how effective or ineffective our education system is. I never pin point "one" stat or "one" issue, I'm pretty sure I loaded up on the studies and pointed at a shit load of evidence on measuring our education system that proves there is plenty of room for improvement.

You dont need to know how to write to sew in a factory.
You dont need to know how to sew to write in a office.

If you focus to much on writing you might end up with shirts that have un-even stitching.
If you focus to much on arts and crafts you might end up with a company with communication issues.

In this case success is only seen on paper but not in practice. If you ever notice. There isnt one country that is that is on top of every one else.

moot. And while it true is unrealistic to expect one country to be at the top and the best of every measure of educational excellence, I think it is reasonable to expect the US not to be consistently ranked lower than many 3rd world countries and be ranked so damn low.

Why would we care to mention Che Che Guevara...that terrorist put Mexico even further behind, as well as much of Carribbean nations he soiled.

True, you convinced me, we should also strike Hitler, Gangis Khan, Ivan the Terrible, and King Henry VIII. These assholes dont need to be in history books.

Smokin wrote: moot. And while it true is unrealistic to expect one country to be at the top and the best of every measure of educational excellence, I think it is reasonable to expect the US not to be consistently ranked lower than many 3rd world countries and be ranked so damn low.

~15th place aint bad in a race against hundreds of small countries.

Why would we care to mention Che Che Guevara...that terrorist put Mexico even further behind, as well as much of Carribbean nations he soiled.

True, you convinced me, we should also strike Hitler, Gangis Khan, Ivan the Terrible, and King Henry VIII. These assholes dont need to be in history books.

Che Guevara... What a failure.. He failed in Mexico, He failed in Africa, he failed in south America. And even thought he succeeded to help capture Cuba he failed to industrialize it like he wanted to.

The guys a embarrassment and a murder..

He should be mentioned because those who fail to understand history are bound to repeat it. Just because something horrible happened doesnt mean it needs to be ignored it. If we study it and learn from it we can achieve a brighter tomorrow. If we ignore it then the warning bells wont go off when something similar starts to unfold