Fair play and fun

For public discussion of Wings~of~War events

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sturmbahnfuhrer
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Fair play and fun

Unread post by sturmbahnfuhrer » 11 Jun 2010 21:30

I just want to put this out there. I understand the concept of Wings of War, but to fly around and just camp the base is pathetic at best. I don't care if you think that it's war and all is fair. The point of this is to have fun and have people come back and play. Any moron can strafe the runway and get a kill, that takes zero skill. Not to mention no one wants to come in just to have 3 or 4 idiots strafing and killing you 30 seconds after you spawn. That just makes people leave or wait til you get off. Not much fun flying around by yourself with no one to fight. I want to have fun and I'm sure all of you do to. If you are going to respond try to say something intelligent and not some childish garbage.

Also, if you think strafing is fair play then why don't you allow it on your own server?

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RCAF_FB_BigCat
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Re: Fair play and fun

Unread post by RCAF_FB_BigCat » 11 Jun 2010 22:53

~S~ All....This is getting out of hand now. Being called names and being cussed at by people that say we have no honor is getting old. We are following the rules of the game. If the rules change we will follow them if we choose to play the game. So if anyone that is in the game flying and following the rules they shouldnt be called cocks, assholes, f*ckers, Cheaters or skilless pilots. That just shows how much honor they have. I hope spmeone goes back and reads some of the things that has been said on this Campaign. I used to look forward to theese matches but I am really re-thinking my my roll in this anymore with some of the new (Riff Raff) that is a part of this Campaign this time.

RCAF_FB_BigCat

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sturmbahnfuhrer
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Re: Fair play and fun

Unread post by sturmbahnfuhrer » 12 Jun 2010 00:46

I would like to point out I did not call any of you names. Go ahead and look at the game logs. I did say the guys floating around the base strafing have no skill and that's true. Where is the skill in hitting a target that is not moving? In fact I answered it with "just checking" and left it at that. That's when the "It's war" comment came out, like this game is your lives. I was just pointing out a fact sorry if you are offended by that. I was there when you guys were called "coks", that's how he spelled it. Funny, why didn't it offend you then? Right after that you guys were trying to tell him he can't spell. Not to mention most of you answered thanks, so please don't act like you are the victim. I don't understand why you now want to make a big deal out of it. I pointed out that I want to have fun and apparently this is getting out of hand because people are starting to get pissed and not having fun anymore.

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Warren
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Re: Fair play and fun

Unread post by Warren » 12 Jun 2010 11:40

In an attempt to make these games as easy to fly we basicaly let the game itself detrmine the rules. If it can be done within the game, its all good................. be it vulching or dive bombing in a B-17 or parking that Ju-88 in the middle of an enemy airfield and blasting away. ;)

We simply cant govern a rules/protest type of inspired event that runs for 24/7. Of course we promote an sence of good sportmanship, we hope that everyone enjoys these events but understand there are many that never even tried it nor enoyed it after expeirencing WoW.
All we can do is restrict the mods, so everyone is flying the same game and not allowed "Dissconnects" while in flight.

These campaigns are a work in process as they can always be improved. The more we fly these week long campaigns, the more we learn. Dragging a single 150kb. mission out for 7 days is quite a feat............ sometimes impossible on some maps.

Back on point, having your bases caped by the enemy does suck but you have to recognize that fact quickly and move to another base or organize an effort to break it.
This is completely geared towards a team enviroment. Its very important to get on comms, information about whats going on where changes on a minute by minutes basis.

At not time should someone in the game have immunity from being a target. Accept that fact and you'll be flying a whole new game. 8-)

Stay smart, stay fast and stay away from my bomber.
There went out another horse that was red
Power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth

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Tiger
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Re: Fair play and fun

Unread post by Tiger » 12 Jun 2010 11:49

The way I see it, the problem and the solution are pretty clear cut.

In this game there are those who believe that killing aircraft on the ground is simply wrong, and those who believe it's a valid tactic. The problem began with the first fighter simulation where one could take-off, so the argument is much older than IL-2 itself.

I write as few rules as I possibly can, and I don't write any that require proof beyond the software available and logs because it always gets ugly when you have to rule on a subjective matter. How high up was he? How far from the base? Was that a vulch or wasn't it? And, that's after asking for the .ntrk file, taking the time to review it, e-mails between the parties, arguments over what actually constitutes a vulch, etc. There is also the tendency of a small percentage of players to argue the letter of a rule and completely ignore the spirit of it, which renders the rule useless in some cases. The campaigns are set up to essentially govern themselves without the need for any "hands on" administration.

While it is true that it is not against the rules to vulch another player, it is not encouraged, either. The practical aspect of the matter is simply this; if you are killed attempting to take off, you now have to wait approximately 15 minutes to fly again, and you may not be motivated to come back. So, the question you need to ask yourself before you kill someone taking off is; do I really need to kill him taking off and risk losing another player, or can I wait just a few minutes while the enemy gets clear of the airfield and gains a little altitude?

The arguments and frustrations that we have seen thus far in the campaign all stem from killing aircraft attempting to take off because of the difference of opinion I stated above. People have insulted one another and tensions have been high. It has been suggested that a rule be made to stop the vulching, but that is just another can of worms. It doesn't stop the problem, it only changes the focus.

The solution is to be courteous to your fellow players if you want them to continue to participate. It's that simple. And, this isn't a matter of opinion. It's simply human nature. This is a game, and if people aren't enjoying it they're not going to play.
Colonel Tiger
Commanding Officer
3rd Pursuit Squadron, HELL'S ANGELS


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"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution." -Thomas Jefferson

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RCAF_FB_Badbet

Re: Fair play and fun

Unread post by RCAF_FB_Badbet » 12 Jun 2010 12:41

Although I'm not flying this campaign I feel I have to put my 2 cents in on this.

This is a campaign. It has many facets to it involving strategy and tactics with the overall goal of winning. It is unlike flying in a dogfight server purely for the fact that it is run over a small period of time and that it is based upon the overall outcome of the battle within that time period, not the outcome of the individual pilot. It is the team effort that decides the outcome of the battle using whatever methods necessary at the time to achieve tactical or strategical goals and eventually win the battle. That being said, I would take in what Tiger and Warren have posted, whichever side you are flying. Embrace the spirit of play.

It is true that being strafed on the ground does suck. None of us really enjoy it at any time, especially with the death penalty in effect. All of us just want to fly, kill a few things, and RTB. In reality though that may not happen for the most part. If you wish to partake in these campaigns you must accept that as fact. There are options open if this does happen. Historically there were many instances where strafing was performed. Just watch the opening scenes of the Battle of Britain movie. It clearly shows this opportunity being taken when provided. In fact, there were squadrons tasked with this throughout the war.

The AVG works hard to ensure a somewhat historical accuracy and fairness within their campaigns. They have overcome many obstacles and growing pains to achieve what they have to this point and many kudos go out to them.

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Pirates_Smile
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Re: Fair play and fun

Unread post by Pirates_Smile » 12 Jun 2010 14:32

"Vulching sucks"...Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, Pearl Harbor, 1941



WAR....

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sometimes it annoys the CRAP out of you.
Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers. Make your choice.

— Derek Robinson.
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[URU]Panzer
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Re: Fair play and fun

Unread post by [URU]Panzer » 12 Jun 2010 16:17

Pirates_Smile wrote:

WAR....

Image

sometimes it annoys the CRAP out of you.

LOL !!!
:D :mrgreen: :D :mrgreen:

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sturmbahnfuhrer
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Re: Fair play and fun

Unread post by sturmbahnfuhrer » 12 Jun 2010 17:56

2 cents noted and regarded as a pile of crap. Trying to justify a tactic that ruins the fun of this game is pretty funny. If it didn't ruin the fun of the game then why don't you allow it on your own server? A question you didn't answer before but I already know that you will play the we pay for it card. BTW, I have flown on your server and you guys only follow your own rules when it suits you. Then when you get called out on it, you kick them. I don't really care if you guys vulch or not. I was pointing out facts. Funny how people get all riled up when you through the truth in their face.

I refuse to strafe planes and at least i know that my score in the end is legit, good or bad.

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sturmbahnfuhrer
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Re: Fair play and fun

Unread post by sturmbahnfuhrer » 12 Jun 2010 18:28

Also warren, tiger understood.

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